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Episode 46: The Nutrition Facts of Life

In our conversation with Nati Valderrama, we talk about how health and nutrition affect our relationships, how to portray your authentic self, social media vs. real life, and what it means to lead a “balanced” life. Nati Valderrama is a bilingual Health and Wellness Coach who works with clients around the world to find balance in their lives. She teaches workshops in both English and Spanish and is based in Santiago, Chile. Help us build a better BBXX for you by sending your feedback to hello@bbxx.world :)

Sasza
Nati, thanks so much for joining us on the show today.

Nati
Thank you for having me.

Sasza
Firstly, I would love for you to just tell our listeners what exactly it is that you do and, how you came to be doing this work? What personal experiences, relationships, or events led you to where you are today?

Nati
I work as a health and wellness coach and I have been working as a coach for the past year. And it has been quite the journey to get to this career choice. I have had quite the love-hate relationship with my body, during most of my life. About five or six years ago I was babysitting and I was eating this Papa John’s pizza and I was just feeling really gross and really bad about myself, but I was just so used to it. And I was scrolling through Instagram and I found this account. She is a personal trainer, Kayla Itsines. And I found her account, and I saw all these before and after pictures and I was just, oh wow this seems legit. Because people were legitimately happy about their results and it was not just a scam. So I was, okay, on Monday I am starting this program and I am getting on it. Then, I started working out and I started eating healthy. I cut off alcohol for my life for three months or a bit more. And I was just eating super healthy and working out consistently. I saw this huge change in my body, of course. And after I did it for about three months, I had these pretty impressive before and after pictures. So I decided to open an Instagram account, a private one. I mean not my personal one, just another one and to share my pictures and I shared them one night, went to sleep. The next morning I had 4,000 followers. Kayla had reposted my photo and I had all these people asking me all these questions and, Oh my God, you are an inspiration. And it was just very overwhelming. And in the course of the next six months, my following really went up, because Kayla kept promoting my pictures, because she does that with all of her clients that are happy customers. And I started growing quite the following and I started sharing recipes. And this was just around the time that I was finishing college. I studied advertising and I was really confused about what I wanted to do with my life. But this gave me a new sense of purpose. So I started working on a recipe book. And I started living off of that for a while, and just giving people advice without really having any… I was not a nutritionist, or a personal trainer, but I just gave my personal advice on how to lose weight, and how to eat healthier, and how to achieve that lifestyle.

And I did that for a while where it got to a point where I just got really obsessed with my health, and really obsessed with healthy eating. And it got to a point where it started being unhealthy. Where I just would not want to go. I would not want to see people because I could be in a party and someone would offer me a drink and I would be, no, I do not drink. So, I just wanted to isolate myself from everything. And it got to a point where it was just too much. So, I eventually had this click and I ended up just eating everything again, and just going back to not working out. And then, winter came, and it just took me back down where I used to be, and still with a better mindset than before, but still just like Yolo, whatever, I can eat, I can be more flexible. And then I started hating my body again, but I was still an inspiration in some way, to the people following me. And they were still counting on me. So, I just felt this really weird, how do I find my balance? And it took me a couple of years of going really intense with my workouts and my eating, to then just being lazy and not really doing things for myself anymore. And eventually, I found yoga. And I think that really, really helped me to find that balance and to move my body in a way that was not just, Oh, I want to lose weight, or I want to be fit, but I want to be active and I want to be in my body, and I want to love my body. And it turned my whole perception on my body around. It was quite eye opening and how I realized how I had been working out. Not just for myself, but for the kind of status that it was giving me on Instagram, and everything. It was really weird. And that was around like 2014, 2015. So, influencers were just becoming a thing. So, I was one of the first influencers. But before I actually got really big, I just started to back out from it. And I started realizing just how it was getting really oversaturated, and people were just selling all these protein shakes and stuff, and all these teas, detox teas. And I was, I could go down that road and just become someone who is benefiting from this, or I could find another way to help people more from the heart.

So, around that time I was living in Australia, and I met this health coach, Steph. And we talked a few times and I was just so inspired by her career. And seeing how she was helping people with eating disorders, and to switch that around, and to actually find love for themselves in their bodies. And I was just so inspired by her career choice, and by how she was managing her own time and helping people all over the world. I just really wanted that. So, eventually, it took me a couple of years, but eventually, I took the plunge and I studied for a year with the Institute of Integrative Nutrition in New York. Well, it is an online course, but it is based in New York. And it was truly, truly life changing, not only from the this is a new career choice, but just for me and my personal development. It was amazing. It was the best decision I have made in the past few years, and now I feel like I actually have something to look forward to. Because before, as an advertising graduate, I was just very confused about how I could make an impact on people’s lives, without just selling people stuff.

Sasza
You mentioned that overnight experience when she reposted. Kayla Itsines?

Nati
Itsines. I think that is how you pronounce it.

Sasza
Kayla Itsines. Who is the founder of BBG, the BBG movement, if anybody listening is familiar with that. And we also did an interview with GoFit Jo, who’s journey also started out diving deep into BBG and then scaling back. And starting to look around and look inside more, and question what it actually means to be healthy physically, mentally. To have a healthy body but have a healthy relationship with your body. But that kind of overnight scaling and influence that all of a sudden you had, is so interesting. Because it seems like a lot of times in life, we become experts before we really even know much ourselves. And so, at BBXX, I always try and remind people, that we are learning the whole way, along with them. And maybe we are a bit farther along on the journey. But as your life changes, the circumstances change, there is never less to be learned. But I wanted to talk a bit about, you mentioned love, hate relationship with your body. What was on that love side, what was on that hate side? What do you think it means to you? What does having a healthy relationship with your body, or a positive relationship with your body look or feel like?

Nati
I think the love part was just, I loved a few things about my body. Like, Oh, I have a big butt. So I have always been kind of proud of that. But then, I have small boobs so, I always wanted to change that. Or I wanted to be skinnier or I always was trying to maybe fit into someone else’s mold of what a beautiful woman is. And I think it was when I eventually realized that there is no one perfect ideal of beauty. Despite much we have been told that there is. And being kinder to my body and just being, okay, I do not like my stretch marks. Why do they bother me so much? And then realizing that everybody has stretch marks. And just being, okay, do I want to change them? Do I want to pay for a surgery to change them? No. Why would I, why would I be trying to change my body, if it is something just natural? That is just showing you how much you have changed. How much you have grown. It is the physical representation of your growth and the same with cellulite, or acne, or anything in your body that you are just trying to change. So, I think it has been an internal process, but it has also been the influence of this body positivity movement on Instagram as well. I feel when I started BBG, I started along with a lot of other BBG girls and we had this whole community on there. And slowly, we all started shifting away from it, and started going more into a mental health space or physical. Doing yoga and not just that intensity of let us work out to change our bodies but let us work out because we love our bodies.

And I think that has also really helped, seeing other people that have been through the same as me. Seeing them change the way that they look at their bodies as well. I think that has also inspired me to be, wait, I can love my body. I have permission. But it has taken a while, and there is still days when I look at myself in the mirror and I hear that little voice saying, you are not enough, you are not fit enough, or whatever. And then, it is wait a second, enough for who? As long as I am happy with my body. And one thing that has been really hard is, my mom. My mom is always, not influencing me, but nudging me into maybe losing some weight. And when I was really, really fit, she would tell me that I was too skinny. She was always making comments about my body, and I feel that has always really affected me. Because it is like, the other day I got these shorts. I got them at a flea market and they did not fit. So, I tried them on, and I was at her house. I tried them on, they did not fit and I was like, Oh, well. And she is, Oh, but maybe you could just lose some weight and then you will fit into them. And I am, I am not going to lose some weight for these shorts that I just bought for like Luca. I am not going to sacrifice all this time, just to fit into these pants. I will just get new shorts. It is fine. But I think that has been something that is always weighing on me. Even when I am making strides, I am changing the way that I relate to my body. There is still that, Oh, but maybe you should lose some more weight, or maybe you should not eat that. And it is, wait, why are you halting my progress?

Sasza
Yes. I love that part about stretch marks, as the physical manifestation of growth. And I have mentioned this, I believe on another interview. But I remember that, one time I was I was in Berlin at a workout studio. And in the locker room after and, there was this girl who had some amazing, really cool stretch marks. And I noticed them and was admiring how cool her stretch marks looked. And then found myself questioning why sometimes we admire in other people, the same things that we criticize about ourselves. And so, that is always just an interesting thought exercise for our listeners to reflect upon yourselves. And so, since you did mention your mom. I was going to ask you in general, where do you think your view and your kind of perspective on health, and body image, and self esteem I guess, has come from?

Nati
Where my image?

Sasza
Where do you think, what influences growing up? What do you think molded? What shaped your concept of body image?

Nati
I think it was a mix of media. And then having really skinny friends, and seeing how they were sometimes more attractive to other people. And seeing my other friends who might not be as skinny, be seen as maybe ugly or not. And I think that really shaped it. And when I was skinniest, I would also get a lot of attention. Especially on Instagram, when I was going through this whole thing. The amount of messages from men, creepy men, Oh my God, you are so hot. Stuff like that. It is weird and it is creepy, but then again, it is still that validation, Oh, so is this what I am supposed to look like? And then, with media, when you were growing up, we did not have Lizzo’s. We only had, I do not know, in my times it was Brittany Spears, and Christina Aguilera, and the Spice Girls.

Nati
And you could be all sorts of people, but you would still had to be some sort of skinny. And I think that really affected it. And also, all the creams for cellulite, and all these creams that try to change you. Or not even creams, I do know if surgeries, but things that you can do to change those small things.

Sasza
Cosmedics.

Nati
Cosmetics, exactly. So, I think it is a mix of all of that. And definitely, as well, with my mom. My mom, she is quite skinny and she is almost 60, and she looks like she is 40. She does pilates and things and walks. And she is very fit. So, I think she has always made me have that pressure for looking a little bit more like her. And that comes from her family as well. She is Colombian. And the standard of beauty in Colombia, it might be bigger hips or whatever, but it is still being voluptuous, but still lean. So, I think that also really affected me.

Sasza
You mentioned how everybody who went all in on this BBG, you guys were talking, got really into it, and then slowly people began to back out. And it was that reflection on, you are working out to have a certain body. But then I wonder if it got to a certain point where, people realized that that can only get you so far and that does not really fix anything. So, is it about changing your body versus changing your mind? And obviously, one lends itself to the other, but with that whole movement, and even today, with the people who are in your following, in your community, and that you work with. I am wondering how you would describe what you think people are actually after?

Nati
Yes. As I mentioned before, the whole mental health. That has made the switching become a priority. And I think people when they are just working out obsessively, with the goal of I want to lose weight for this vacation that is coming up, or to fit into this dress. It is, yes, you get there and then what? You are never going to really be happy. Even if you get to that goal of, I want to lose 10 pounds or whatever. But I think, when you switch that around to I want to feel strong, I want to feel confident. It does not necessarily stop at a goal. So, for example, I have not really been working out since November. Because I have been moving, and I have just been stressed and I did not make it a priority. And today, I started working out again. And I just did it with the intention of, I am not going to work out because I want to lose weight. That is not my thing right now. I want to work out because I want to feel a little bit stronger and I want to feel that confidence again. And just by working out with that intention, even though I was suffering through the workout. I was, okay, I feel myself getting stronger and that changes everything. When you work out from a place of self-hate, it is not as enjoyable and you are never really happy. When I reached at some point, I was weighing 46 kilos. I do not know how much that is in pounds, but my normal weight is 52 or 56. I do not even know anymore. And I reached that weight of 46 kilos, and I would still want to lose more weight. I was, I need to be fitter.

Sasza
It is a hundred pounds. It is 99 pounds.

Nati
I was a stick. I lost my butt. Well, I never had much boots to start with, but I was just a stick. And I still felt I was not lean enough.

Sasza
Though you probably were not lean. You were probably just skinny, because you cannot have muscle to weigh that little.

Nati
I was still pretty strong. Doing the BBG program and everything, you are strong after that. But I still felt I was not okay with the way that I was eating. It was just all coming from a place of, ooh no, I cannot eat that. And that is just very restrictive and that takes a toll on your mind after a while. And eventually, I am very glad that I eventually went to the other side and I just became a bit more relaxed with my eating. And now, I am just trying to find that middle point, but always with the intention of how is this going to benefit like me, my mental health, my physical health. And not just, I want to look a certain way to impress people, or to fit into a mold.

Sasza
How tall are you? I am wondering, just for context. We should add that to let people know, because I am assuming you are not that tall. Otherwise, it is like a PSA.

Nati
Yes. No I am a meter 56. How much is that in…?

Sasza
So you are five one, which definitely helps give context.

Nati
Yes, I am not very tall.

Sasza
So yes, that how can we create? How can we value intentions over measurements and look at things as a process versus this specific means to an end? Because then once you get there, then what? I am wondering, just because, literally, last week somebody else mentioned to me this relationship that their family has with body image. And making comments about their body that upset them. I was wondering if you have ever said anything back. Or would have any advice to other people who are coping with that, in terms of how to navigate that space and that relationship with that person? But also, within each oneself with their body. Because obviously, on each side of things, their comments are coming from somewhere else, et cetera.

Nati
I think it starts with you being okay with your body and you cannot really talk back, if you are not emotionally okay. So, I think for me, it has taken a while. At first I would just take my mom’s comments and just be ahh. And I would just internalize them. But eventually journaling about it and that really helped. Okay wait, she said this, this affected me in this way. What am I going to do next time? And my relationship with my mom has improved a lot since then, because I have chosen to talk to her about these things. And not in a situation where everyone else is there, and I am attacking her. But it is more, Hey mom, what you said, I did not really like that. Or this one time that I tried on the shorts and she said that. And she has done that a few times, in the past few months. And I stop her and I am, no, mom, I do not want to lose weight. I am okay with my body. Please stop saying that. But I think it has taken me a while. At first I was just very shocked. And also, stating your feelings. It does not make me feel good when you say that to me. Instead of, I think before I would just attack her back and be, I do not want to be like you. I just take it personally. But now, it is okay, she is not doing this to hurt me. She has her own body image issues that she might be carrying on from generations. So, it is, okay, this is not on me. This is her thing. So, how do I let her know that she is hurting my feelings, and that I do not want this to keep happening? And I think when you approach it from the emotional side, I cannot speak for everyone, but for me, it helps when I am, this is hurting me. Please stop.

Sasza
And in a way, perhaps, this is based on advice that I was given recently. At the same time, not giving them the power of knowing how much they can influence you. That vulnerability but mixed with not feeding that fire, because at the same time, if they know how much they can influence you with those words, it might almost encouraged them to keep expressing them.

Nati
I think it is important to set that boundary and be, no, this is not okay. Please stop. And I do not want this to keep happening. But yes, I guess it depends on what are their intention. Is it really to, Oh, I think this would be good for her, or is it I want to make her feel bad? I cannot speak for every one’s moms. But sometimes they do want to make you feel bad. And it is just not taking it personally, is definitely the first step.

Sasza
Yes. Which is a hard first step. You in your recent post, that I loved, talked about while you were on vacation over the holidays with your family. And some of the body shaming of men, from women towards men. And how that came up, and was something that you noticed. And perhaps, had not thought about as much before. So, I would love to speak to that story, and have you tell that story. And then, outside of that, any thoughts you have on what kind of body image journey or struggle men go through as well. Obviously, in some ways might be easier, might be harder, Because it is not such a public and socially known struggle. Or maybe it is not even there. But just have you speak a bit to that.

Nati
So, I was in holidays in Columbia, because my family is from there. And lots of my cousins and uncles they had a little bit of a beer belly or whatever. And we were spending a lot of the time at the pool. And just my grand mom, my aunt, it was usually from women towards men. They would just say all these comments about, Oh, you have gotten fatter, or maybe you should not drink that, and just constantly. And just to men. I think it got to a point where I have set my boundaries, and now my family does not say anything to me, which I am very glad for. But still, I was just so shocked of the amount of comments that they were throwing at men. Even my brother who is pretty fit. But we have been on holiday for three weeks. Yes, he is eating a lot. Of course, he has lost his six pack, but it is fine. And they were just always commenting on their bodies. And I feel the men could not really speak up about it. They were just okay. And they would just take it. And I could not really tell if it affected them or not because it is harder to be Oh. Unless you are someone who is really in touch with their emotions, or willing to be vulnerable in that way. But, I think most men will just take it in, and you will never really know how it is affecting them. So, I did not really talk about it with them, and see if it really affected them.

But, of course it affects you, if your family is shitting on your body every day. It is a lot. And I think men cannot really talk about it the way that we can. For me, if someone says a comment like that, I will immediately, not immediately, but I will eventually talk about it on Instagram. And I will create conversation. And ,I have friends that I can talk to about it and we can all relate. But I think with men, it is harder to admit that it affected you. It is harder to talk back and be, Hey, this is okay. And there are movements for men to also become more okay with that. I do not know if you know Jameela Jamil and the I Weigh movement?

Sasza
No.

Nati
She is an actress, and she started this Instagram that is I Weigh. And it is more, I do not weigh a certain amount of kilos or pounds. I weigh my happiness, my self-worth, my career, or stuff like that.

Sasza
Yes. I know someone who knows her, and told me about this.

Nati
So she interviewed, it was a really interesting interview. She interviewed Sam Smith. And, I was very inspired by that because they were talking about weight and body issues and all that. And just hearing a man talk about that and how it affected him. I was yes, this is what I want to hear more of. I want to hear men being vulnerable and speaking about how this has affected them. This is affecting them. And it is not just us that suffer from fat shaming, and from body shaming and all sizes. If you are too skinny, you are too skinny. It is like, Oh, you lost a little weight, you are too skinny now, eat more. And it is, just let me have the body that I have. Stop commenting on my body. It should stop being a thing for people to comment on other people’s bodies. Just focus on your own. But I think it is harder with older generations, and their preconceptions.

Sasza
Yes. Versus if it is a comment out of mental health concern. Wondering if somebody is doing okay. Or if you are concerned about their relationship with food, be it a coping mechanism, or a control thing. And if it is a question about the why, behind it versus the…

Nati
Making the comment.

Sasza
Yes, surface result. But I thought it was especially poignant when you pointed out that, it did not matter if you were, on one side of the scale or the other. You were getting feedback, unsolicited feedback and criticism on both ends. So, just from a logical, almost comical but upsetting perspective of, it is actually impossible to be in that middle ground. And constantly be trying to set those goals, that are just a means to an end, according to somebody else’s opinion, which is constantly subject to change and unpredictable.

Nati
And you cannot please everyone. So, you just got to focus on yourself. And that thing you mentioned before, about there is no endpoint that you get to. It is such a bumper sticker phrase though. It is not about the journey. Is not about the destination, it is about the journey. That is so true. If you are not enjoying the whole process. You are going to reach that point and then what? You are just going to suffer all your life to stay in that point. You will never be a hundred percent happy at any stage that you are in. If you are just trying to get to a number, or to look like someone else. So, as long as you are focusing on just doing what feels right for you, and your body, that is what should be a priority.

Sasza
Going back to that means to an end, and the journey. I just think on the most basic level, there is no fulfillment that comes out of a stagnant process. By being stagnant, it automatically is not really a process. And so, when you get to that end point, and then your process becomes just staying there. And you are not learning, or growing, or changing, or challenging yourself in different ways. Whether they are positive or negative, but just having movement and growth, I think that is part of what gives us fulfillment. So it is very obvious in a way that, if your journey becomes stagnant, that there will not be much fulfillment there.

Nati
Yes. Because eventually, you reach a plateau, you are not really moving forward. So, what is really the point? Do you just want to stay in your goal weight forever, but not really keep growing? And eventually, it does take a toll on your mental health. And so, I think it is always about prioritizing how you feel, more than how you look. And I think how you look will always go changing. We are humans, we age and as long as you keep fighting against it. And that takes me to, I have a friend who is obsessed with not aging. And she is every birthday, she is just more and more depressed. And she is just, I do not want to grow old. I just want to go back to being 23. It was a perfect age.

Sasza
Who wants to be 23, then? I do not get that.

Nati
And for me it is but why?

Sasza
You knew nothing.

Nati
And you are growing so much. And yes, maybe your boobs will get saggier and maybe your hair, will have some gray hairs, and maybe you will have a little bit more wrinkles. But there is so much beauty to that. And I think when I see older women or older men who are just aging gracefully. It is so inspiring to me, more than people who have just gotten a lot of surgery, and it is how old even are you? There is beauty in just accepting that you are aging, and that you are growing, and that you are changing. And as long as you keep fighting that, you are never going to be really content with who you are in the present, because you are always just either thinking about the past or dreading the future.

Sasza
And I think part of that with aging but also in general, with quote unquote “beauty” is like [inaudible 31:45]. It is like an energy. Is really a huge part of what makes somebody, charismatic or attractive is what they exude. And so, that can only come from having being in a good place within you. I was at my sister’s house and the TV was on, and the Golden Globes were playing. I have never seen them. But for the first time in my life, I was looking at some of these celebrities. And, usually they just do not age, and you wonder, okay, people look impossibly good, or you make certain assumptions. But literally, I was in shock because I was looking at them and no one looked good. They looked a bit frightening. Because I think it gets to the point where, now, with all these new surgeries, I do not even know what is out there.

Sasza
People are fighting so hard that you end up looking different. You do not look as if you are not aging. You look like you are being reformed and shaped into a different person, which is just a bit creepy. But it almost made me smile a bit thinking, at least it is not this same disillusionment or this illusion of, and this beauty besides, Jennifer Anderson and Jay Lo, who just forever will not. But, the rest of the people just, I felt almost as if it is was a good example in a bad way. But to then look at them, and hopefully people are now thinking instead of looking at people with this impossible standard, they are, Oh, well actually, I do not even want to look like that. So, it was a weird comical.

Nati
And I think people, we used to all like look up to celebrities so much, but I think since social media began, it has made a switch. And now, anyone can be inspiring. And celebrities have to try harder than just looking their best at a red carpet. It is more who are you off of the red carpet, and outside of the movies that you are playing or whatever? It is, who are you really beneath that, and what is your character? What are you giving back? What are you doing other than just being, someone’s goals? People have started to expect more from the people that they are inspired by. It is not just looks now it is more, what are your thoughts? How are you growing? How are you serving others? Maybe I am speaking for myself, but I think there has been a clear change since social media started. And red-carpet beauty is a very specific type of beauty. And that is not real life. You do not live in those kinds of dresses, and that full hair and makeup.

Sasza
Eight hours.

Nati
And the amounts of starving that goes on before that. You have to make sure you do not eat anything before. I am just stressed thinking about that.

Sasza
Yes. Well, even just on a lighting and makeup, it is so interesting how angles and lighting alone, as somebody who was previously worked as a photographer. Just very simple, very simple and is probably, the vast majority of, of what someone or something can look like. People think the filters and the makeup and all of that, but that is just the icing on the cake. Just basics such as lighting and angles can be huge.

Nati
And I think for example, I am really inspired by Alicia Keys. The fact that she is not wearing makeup anymore. She is just so much more beautiful now. I mean she might have been beautiful with makeup back in the day. I do not even remember it. But I just see her now, and I am just so inspired by being authentic with your skin, and just treating it well and just not fooling anyone. I do not really wear much makeup, and any time I do, I feel like I am fooling people a little. And sometimes it is fun, but I try not to depend on it too much. Because when you do, then you lose yourself and who you are, naturally.

Sasza
It is something you can, I’ am sure people at some points do hide behind. As I want to transition a bit away from bodies and into relationships. It was funny, because as we were here speaking about celebrities and how people look up to them. I found myself laughing a bit thinking what if we decided how much we should admire or admiration was deserved by a certain celebrity. Not based on how timeless they aged or anything like that. But again, the same way as if, what if we measured our life by our relationships? And so, if we were to look at celebrities lives and the relationships they live, there would not be much admiration there. I just found it a bit comical when you think about, how give credit where credit is due. I cannot imagine how difficult it is to have an ‘A’ list amount of fame, especially on both ends. Or I am sure there are struggles when one person has that and the other person does not. But just outside of their work as actors, when we begin to admire people because of other things. For who they are, even outside of those rules and whatever they do. But if we were to look at what is the most important work we can do in our lives, or relationships. So, if we were to examine that, I just found it a bit comical to think about how that might change the perspective that we had and the naive admiration that I think a lot of people have for famous people.

Nati
Yes. I remember you touching on this on an interview. It was a while back. And the guy you were interviewing said that, nowadays you receive all this validation from social media. But back in the day you would receive it, celebrities would receive it from their following and all that. And that would eventually break the couples up. And I think now social media is even more validation, even more at hand. So, I think, how does that affect the relationships that they are leading as well? How does that affect the relationships that we are leading as well? I do not know, sometimes I see people just looking at stories. And we are putting up a story and then just checking every five minutes who saw the story, and who replied to my story. And it is just, you can get very lost in that cycle of validation. Even if it is just someone saw your story, that does not validate anything. But you just feel that little impulse of serotonin. And you are just so happy about it. And I think it is hard to judge celebrities on their relationships because like, I do not even know what it feels like to have that level of fame. And to have to sustain a career, and a social life and relationships under the, what do you call it? The spotlight. That must be really hard. So, I cannot speak for them. But I do agree with you that relationships is, a great way to measure your life and your life’s work. Because you can live all your life alone, and you can be super successful. But what you reached the end of your days and you are just, I wished I would have hung out more with my siblings, or with my friends. It is so easy to let go of these relationships and fade at what we were saying, before we started the interview. About how it is the base for a lot of people to just live an isolated life. And then you have to make the effort to relate to others and to go out of your way to meet with friends, or with love interests, or whatever. I think it can be very easy to just let yourself slip away, and kind of become an introvert. Or, not an introvert, but someone who is more isolated from that.

Sasza
Yes. We were chatting before the interview. We are in Latin America, we are in Santiago, Chile. I was wondering you have to say I guess Santiago de Chile. I just say Santa como karma Chile. But anyways, we are in Santiago and we were talking about, I was expressing a bit about, how what I love about Latin American culture. Part of which is, to me it feels as though in the United States, the default, if you do not make an effort, your default status, social status will feel very isolated. You have to make plans, go out, find people, push to do activities, and sometimes it is a bit harder there. Versus here, it feels as though truly the default is just a very rich social environment. And even if you work until eight or 9:00 p.m. on a weekday, there is still something to do. People to meet up with, hours left to be had and lived of that evening. And it just lends itself so much, especially for me to, forcing you into this work life balance. And you almost have to try to, if you wanted to isolate yourself, you would have to try very hard. And so, just speaking about how much, especially when you are starting, working on your own company and sometimes can get really stressed. Just having that forced social default that helps you be more on when you are on. And really be off when you are off. Rather than, even in the U.S. if I do something fun at night, or on the weekend, or whatever, but it is on my own. I am still thinking about work or I cancel plans with myself all the time, to work instead. And so, just interesting to kind of examine how society and culture lends itself to certain stuff like that.

You were speaking a bit about social media. So, I would love to just kind of hear your thoughts and how, especially on your own journey of body image and all of that. How can you tune out the noise or when your work is sharing things about yourself and posting photos of yourself. How does that either help or harm that process, you know, what kind of skills or lessons have you learned that you think might help other people navigate social media in a healthier way?

Nati
Great question. I think it has been quite the journey of I used to share more than once a day. I was always used it as a journal. And since I was spending so much time on there, I was just scrolling a lot, and it got to a point where I just started comparing myself. And not just body-wise, but also just, Ooh, she is doing much better. Oh, she just launched her business and she is thriving. And it is very easy to get into the comparison game. And I think one of the best things I have done for myself and my mental health, or on social media, is put my phone in airplane mode every night. And when I wake up, do not take it out of airplane mode until it is necessary. So, for me, everyone has a different morning routine, but for me it is whether waking up and doing yoga, and then having breakfast, and drinking my cup of coffee and just when I am drinking my cup of coffee, that is when I take it out of airplane mode. And that is when I start getting all my WhatsApps and my messages or whatever. And I just try to be very deliberate about the time that I am spending there. It also helps to have that not timer, but on Instagram now, it can control how much time you are on. So it is, Hey, you have been on Instagram for two hours. I usually just ignore it, but it is still good to be like, okay, Hey, I have spent so much time on it today. And how much of it has actually been productive? And how much of it has made me kind of feel bad about myself? So, I think another thing is, really being clear on what kind of people you want to follow, and what kind of people are actually detrimental to you. And sometimes you can be following this like beautiful model and she might have felt like an inspiration at some point. But then you start seeing every time you see a post of hers, you get the deep feeling in your gut or you feel jealousy, or you feel, whatever feeling that you are just not happy with. It is, Hey, should I keep following this person? Am I getting value out of following this person? Can I maybe unfollow her or mute her for a while, until I am in a better place mentally. And for me it really helps every few months to just look at the people I follow and unfollow people that either I have not seen in awhile, because of the algorithm. And that I have not really missed much. Or people that, they make me feel bad about myself, even if they are not trying to. But if there is that feeling, then I try to just, maybe I should take a step back. And I think that really helps to feel, to have a better relationship with social media. Especially since I am working through it a bit.

So now, I share way less than I used to. And I try to be very deliberate about the things that I share. And to share from a heart-based place instead of, I used to just sometimes you will just write a small caption, you will put a quote, and then like lots of hashtags. But I felt even if I put a bikini picture with hashtags and a small quote, I don’t feel good about it. The same way that I would, if I shared something more raw, and personal. And I think I have taken that approach with Instagram. And I try to just be really vulnerable and authentic with what I am feeling and that always resonates so much more with people. And I think that makes me feel like I am doing something good, other than just posting a bikini picture that might make someone else feel bad about themselves. I put myself in their shoes, and how I feel about certain people. And it is no, I do not want them to feel that way. I want to share the different parts. So, for me it is okay, if it is a post that it is I am celebrating my cellulite, or talking about stretch marks, or talking about the body shaming. Or all the stuff like that I feel I always get such a better response, than just staying basic or just saying something that is not really from the heart.

Sasza
Yes. And I think it is important for people who do have a certain amount of influence. I think for all of us actually, regardless, to recognize as much as you might be affected by other people. What you say might also have the same, so what are you choosing to share, from what angle? From what point of truth or level of authenticity and by putting out something more authentic. Does that perhaps something that cannot create as much conflict, or judgment, or upset people as much. And I think that, again, for people to re-examine their relationships with social media and if it is something exercising that brings you joy doing it. But if it is something that has become, a compulsion or examining the why behind it, why are you going on, why are you following these people? How does it make you feel, and why? That, I think would be a really great measurement for people. What value are they providing for you? And what value am I providing for other people? And how does it make people feel being on there? I am not a fan of social media, so I am not the person. But I just do wonder when people do spend, hours or even just… It does seem like it could get to the point where it might become this compulsion. And so then, but does that make you feel good? It maybe feels you need to do it but, and therefore you want to do it. But what is behind that? And I think that also, if people were to really force themselves to step back and go to ground zero, and then re-add things in, based on value. That maybe they would realize they do not need it as much as they do or enjoy it as much as they do. I am not sure.

Nati
I mean it is always good to take a little break from Instagram or whatever other social media you are using. And to really think about your life without it. And how was it before? Kids these days do not even know a life before social media. And I think that is very dangerous. Not being able to step back from it and find happiness outside of it. And then returning to it from a more present state without just scrolling endlessly. Ugh, I remember the other day I was at a party and I saw this girl. She was just scrolling through stories and she was not even looking at them. She was just next, next, next, next for 10 minutes. And I was, you are not even looking at them. I cannot even get started. It is so bizarre to me. You feel people are turning into robots. And it is scary. So, I think it is always good to take a step back. Maybe say, okay I could do without Instagram for a week, and just delete it from your phone. And then, after the week you will probably learn a lot of things about yourself. And be, wait, I could do this again. Or maybe I am missing it. I want to share my learnings. But I think it is good to take that step back, and see it from another perspective. Because you can get really immersed in it. And what you said, the compulsion of it. It is a lot. Sometimes I just grab my phone and I am scrolling through Instagram, and I do not even remember opening it. And it is just, okay wait. And it is an exercise of, okay, I just did that. Let us try not to do that again. The next time I grabbed my phone and I am reaching for that, I am, is there something that I want to see here? Is there something that I am looking for or is it just that subconscious? So it is rough. It is very addictive. And especially, there are these studies about how the little red notification sign, and how that affects your brain. And how you are just, if you see that red notification you have to click it. And that is just so scary to be. There is a reason why it is not blue or yellow. The red of it, just makes you, just the urgency. And just knowing that is a thing, just being, okay, I will not fall for this. I will be a little bit more conscious of it. And maybe setting times during the day. I will check Instagram at 3:00 p.m., but before that I will just try to focus on these other things. And time blocking a little bit more, so that it is not just a black hole that you fall into. Over and over again throughout the day.

Sasza
Yes. I do not use airplane mode, but I do not use my phone in the mornings much. Which came from a place of just, usually I like to get up and go and do something. But now, even if I do not, it just gives me anxiety. And what I have noticed is whether I take that time to exercise, which I refer to as endorphin therapy. And a very important part of mental health, at least for me, and has become a… Anyways, we will not go there. But for me, my mornings are the only time guaranteed to me, throughout the day. Just more stuff builds up, more things to be done, more people to talk to, more things to respond to, more conflicts, and so really taking advantage of that time to just.

Nati
Do your thing.

Sasza
Yes.

Nati
I always say, you would not let a hundred strangers into your room first thing in the morning. Why would you open your mail when you are still in bed? That is just so invasive of your space and your energy. And you just start your day, I do not know off on the wrong foot. You could get an amazing email, but still, you are not just present. And you are not doing something for yourself. You are not having that morning routine because someone on the outside influenced you with a thought or a feeling. And I think having the mornings just to myself with that clear mental energy. And then, eventually, letting people in at some point during the day, but being more conscious of it.

Sasza
So, I love to hear about how and this for women, men, folks, for people, humans. How you think that our relationship with health, part of which, is our relationship with our body, plays into our relationships with other people, on the positive and negative side of things?

Nati
So, that is actually one of the approaches that we take in IIN (Institute for Integrative Nutrition). So, they talk about primary and secondary foods. So, let us say your secondary foods are everything that you are consuming whether it is food, veggies, coffee, alcohol, whatever. And then, the primary foods are your exercise, your physical activity or your endorphin therapy, whatever you would call it. Your career, your relationships, and your spirituality. So, as long as any of those things are out of balance, it does not really matter what you are eating. For example, if you were in a job that you really hate or your boss is making your life miserable. You are going to get home and you could eat a kale salad, or you can eat all these healthy things. But you are still not going to be healthy. And if you are in a really toxic relationship, or if you have been single for a while and you are starting to feel that loneliness. Maybe you get home and you want to lose weight, but you get home, and you open the fridge and you just start searching for that comfort, when really all you need is a hug. And so, it is about finding that balance between the primary and the secondary foods. Trying to focus on the things in your primary food that are lacking and then focusing on getting more greens or eating a little bit healthier. So, I think when I say I am a health coach, people are always, Oh, so you are a nutritionist. You are going to tell me what to eat. And it is, not really. I can. I can give you tips, but deep down we all know what we need to eat to be healthier. We all know we need to eat more vegetables, drink more water, eat more whole grains, stuff like that. But I like to focus more on the other sides of your life that are not really complete, or that you feel they are lacking. And relationships is definitely one of them. I had a client that she was struggling with binge eating and cravings. And one of things that we realized in one of our sessions was that her social life was really lacking. And she was not taking the time to meet up with friends, and she was single. She was okay with being single. But I think she was lacking the social elements in her life. And as soon as she integrated that, and she started eating. I mean she started hanging out more with friends. She was able to prioritize more on food, and the other parts of her life that were lacking for her to feel healthier. And I do not know if you have heard of the study of ‘The Blue Zones’? It talks about all these different areas in the world where people are the healthiest. And in those places, one of the most important things is community. And I think one of them was, Okinawa in Japan. And it is just most people are eating plant-based diets or Mediterranean diets. That is important, the food side of it. But the other part that is important, it is just having that community, they meet up all the time. Even if you are aging, but you are surrounded by all these other people, and that just brings so much more health into your life, and happiness, and wellbeing in general.

Sasza
Yes. Those studies about longevity into in places like Sardinia where again, you have all these centenarians. People who are living to be over a hundred years old. And a huge part of it, yes, could be the diet. But again, it is these places where there is a deep sense of community and people are… the default is that socialization. The default there is not isolation. You are in these small communities, people know people. You have family around or friends who are your family as well. And so that is definitely interesting. I really like that idea of primary foods and secondary foods. But really, they are just values and systems in your life, and that synergetic relationship between them. So, is it, you focus on balancing that primary group. And then once you have that, you can move on to the secondary? Or is it this constant fluid feedback process? And sometimes you might have more going on? How does that work?

Nati
Even if it is someone that their primary goal is either to lose weight or to change the way that I am eating or whatever. I always start with different tools to find what areas are out of balance. We usually work on those areas first. But I am always, I do not know, maybe this this week go to the farmer’s market, or to a supermarket and just try one new veggie. And I am always doing those secondary food on the side, but it is never a priority. It is more, even if your primary goal is to eat healthier, I am still going to focus on the other areas of your life that are causing you to maybe, one half that binge session or to want to eat junk food at all times. You are not going to fix that just by eating healthy. You are going to fix that by going to the root of the problem. And I loved that about the approach of IIN is, it goes with functional medicine. And how do you say [inaudible 01:00:15]?

Sasza
Despite? Instead of?

Nati
Yes, instead of the approach that most medicine takes these days, Western medicine is, Oh you have so-and-so issue, let us do a surgery, let us fix it. It is a band-aid probably. You just solve that issue but you do not really get to the root. So, with this approach and with the coaching that I do, I really want to get to the root of the problem so that you can change that and you have that baseline to start from. Because you can change your eating in a week, and you can be eating super healthy. But if you do not really have the other things figured out, you are just going to go back to that cycle of maybe eating junk food or whatever it is that you are struggling with, in terms of food.

Sasza
Yes. And that quote unquote ‘nutrition’ as a symptom. But really going further than merely how do you look or what are you eating? But that again, how do you feel? What is your relationship with food, or with your body at that point? And that relationship being reflective of, and almost a symptom of that first tier of other things. And so I just cannot help but think about how when people focus on sex, and problems they have in the bedroom, it is a symptom. It is a symptom that is being expressed due to underlying issues that probably have nothing to do with that. Based on connection, communication, circumstances, all these other things. And so, really, if we could begin to start to see health, and nutrition, and body image as the same. An expression of these same underlying first tier relationships, first tier values, and important things that build that base, which we need.

Nati
Yes, for sure.

Sasza
I will go a bit into some quicker questions, shorter ones and some definitions. Because I love operating definitions. And so, I would love to know what your definition of being a woman is? And how it might be, may or may not be different than being a human?

Nati
I think it has been changing for a while. Most of my teen years, I wanted to be a man. I was tomboyish but not really. But I had lots of good guy friends and I was just, Oh, they have it so easy. And every time I got my period I was just so mad at my body. And I think I have reached a point in my life where I am just very grateful for being a woman and starting to appreciate it more. And I think that has also been influenced by hanging out with women who really, really love their bodies. And who think of like their menstrual cycles as something sacred. And I do not know if I have a definition for what it is to be a woman, but I think it starts with that community. With surrounding yourself with other… you cannot just be a woman that is isolated from the world. You will not be happy. All humans do. But I think with women, we are such emotional beings. Humans are.

Sasza
It is almost like I do not know that we need men. It probably only seems as if they have needed it less, because it has not been socially acceptable versus… And crazy studies just proving how much we do need. And that is, the most important thing for health is that connection with other humans.

Nati
For sure. With women I have seen such a change in how women before, were just competing with each other. And I have seen how now it is less about competing but more about lifting each other up. And I think just that single change has made me view my relationships with my women friends, in a much better light. And I just want to be there for other women, and I want them to be there for me. And I think there is that nurturing side of it. And let us not even go into motherhood, which is just such an intense. A friend of mine had a baby two weeks ago, and I have just been so emotional, Oh, my God, my friend has a baby. She is a mother. She just went through labor. And it is so sacred, and we take it all for granted, but it is just so powerful. And I have come to terms with my womanhood. And I am becoming more and more of a feminist as well. I used to think of, Oh, feminism, oh. But now I am, Oh, we should all be feminists. And just understanding how it could benefit men as well. And I am going to go on a tangent here. I do not know if you know who Justin Baldoni is?

Sasza
Yes.

Nati
So, you have you seen his program, “Man Enough”? So, I saw that of a few months ago and I was just so in awe of it, because I think we need more of that. Of spaces where men can be emotionally open and talk about the difficult things and be vulnerable. And I think we could all as a society, benefit from men being in tune with their feelings and talking to other men about this kind of stuff. And, my dad is also a coach and he has begun doing this, I do not know how you say it in English, “conversatodio”? It is like they meet up once a week. It is a group of eight men. And he is calling it, ‘Humbres Group’. It is like a men’s group. And it is called, ‘Hombres Vulnerables y Valientes’.

Sasza
That is amazing.

Nati
Yes. Vulnerable and brave men, I guess. And they just talk about all these things about what it is to be a man. And they have all these conversations that, I am not even having these conversations with women, deliberately. I probably have them here and there, but it is not, let us meet up once a week, have some wine and cheese, and talk about what it is like to be a man. What is great about being a man, what is not? How can we be more of an ally to women, to the women in our lives, to the women in society? And deconstructing all of that, and seeing how your beliefs of being a man come from generations and generations of just boys do not cry, and all these other things. And it is been amazing watching him go through that. I am not going to go into that circle because I am a woman, but I am looking forward to now, tuning into that, and maybe starting some women groups. And being able to talk about all these things. And about how sacred ministration is and to talk about well, I am really into astrology and stuff. So, I want to start doing moon cycles, just with women. So, we can talk about our feelings in this safe space. Which I do not think we usually have. As I mentioned, it is these conversations that you have in passing, but you do not really have these sacred spaces where you continuously talk about these topics.

Sasza
What would you say, just cause we are going to run out of time. Well, and to close that out, and I would say how important I think it is though, that men, women folks come together and have these conversations together. And that they are not just, as in this day, I think it is so great that these different conversations are going on. And there is an irreplicable amount of value to that, and a certain level of vulnerability a lot of people can have in one situation versus the other. But again, and in part what BBXX tries to do is, create that space to where anybody and everybody can come together to then share those perspectives and learnings. So that they are not happening separately and people growing on their own track apart from each other. There is that crossover, and that fluidity and evolution together.

Nati
Yes, for sure.

Sasza
What would you say your definition of intimacy is? I am going to say it again. Yes. There’s this like [inaudible 01:09:11]. What is your definition of intimacy and what role has it played in your life?

Nati
I think intimacy is that openness to being vulnerable. That is one of the first steps. And just being open to let other people know who you really are. So, it is of being who you are without those walls or… So, I think intimacy can happen yes, in the bedroom, but it can also happen in friendships. It can also happen with family. Just it is those moments where you put down your walls, and you just really speak from the heart, and show your true colors. Yes, I think that would be it.

Sasza
And one we did not get to dive into as much, your personal relationships, and with your now husband. But I would love to hear a bit about that process, and what you have learned, and what the two of you have learned together thus far on your journey.

Nati
I think one of the most important parts of our relationship is conversations. And I think in a few months it will be nine years of us being together. And whenever anyone asks how have you lasted so long, with the patience and whatever. And it is more than that, it is just being able and being open to having really hard conversations. And to not shutting yourself off when something is happening. It is more, Oh, I am dealing with this, how do I explore this? How do we explore this together, and how can I talk to you openly about what I am going through without any judgment? And I think that has been a key part of our relationship. Just not judging each other for going through stuff, that we all go through. But instead, being really open to having those conversations and to explore it together.

Sasza
Can you give one example?

Nati
Well, recently, we have been talking a lot about, and because of your podcast about polyamorous relationships. And, for us, we have been in a monogamous relationship for almost nine years now. And we got married just last year, but now we are just exploring how does that affect us? Monogamy. Is that something that we want to stick to and it was really not just one conversation, just many. And are we willing to explore this? Would we want to open up, or not, and how would we feel about it? And it has just been some tearful conversations, but also just so happy. After the second day we were talking about all this stuff, I was just, I love you so much, because I am so happy that I can talk about this with you, instead of just keep it in to myself. And then, just hating myself for thinking these things, and then eventually, maybe cheating on him. It is, okay, let us talk about how we are feeling about this, and how are we moving forward in our relationship, if we really plan to stay married for awhile. We are not just going to follow the status quo and do things the way everyone does them. Because we are our own very personal relationships. So, we need to set our rules, set our guides for how we are going to approach this relationship. And that is going to go changing year after year. But I think it is important to keep having those conversations, and to speak up about anything that might be going on in the back of our heads. It has been really beautiful.

Sasza
And so, to wrap things up, I would love to know if you have… well before I ask you. A quick set of rapid-fire questions I have. What actionable advice you would offer to our listeners be it from body imagery, to relationships and intimacy, coming from what you have learned, that is perhaps, a less shared perspective?

Nati
I think something I learned the hard way is hard conversations need to be had. And if you just stick to the easy conversations you can be okay. But there is always that one hard conversation that you have had on your to do list, and you just push it off. Just get it done. And as soon as you get it done, you realize, Hey, that was not that hard. And I feel that weight lifted off of me. So, that can be just talking to your partner in a relationship, or your business partner, or your boss, or your employee. Just having that conversation. The more you push it off, it is just going to weigh on you more. So, just getting those conversations.

Sasza
I love that. Hard conversations need to be had, and it builds beautifully on to a quote from another one of our interviews that was, “There is no good time to have a difficult conversation”. So, just the combination of the necessity, and the growth, and positivity that can come from them. But getting beyond those excuses, those barriers and getting into that when you take down those barriers or get over that wall of fear, you can then expand and grow. And there is a certain amount of relief and positivity. Be it, the conclusion of that conversation could be somewhat of an objectively negative one. But knowing it and having that closure and being able to act accordingly or move on from that relationship, what be it, can still be an extremely positive experience.

Nati
And then, every hard conversation gets a little easier. And then, you realize. I was just talking to a friend the other day about how we used to just stick to the small talk with most of our friendships. And how once we started speaking more vulnerably and being more open about sharing our feelings. More and more people came to us and spoke about harder things. And it just creates that space for deeper conversations to happen, and for deeper relationships to form.

Sasza
And how can we just make those regular conversations, instead of thinking of it and on that conscious level, when it has that label. But realizing no, these are just actual, the small talk. That is not even a conversation. These are real conversations. That is just, a facade. That is just killing time or wasting time. What are some of your favorite questions to ask people to take the conversation a bit deeper?

Nati
I do not know. I have been struggling with that. Because it always depends on their level of wanting to go there. Because how are you, definitely does not cut it. But I recently read about this article and I think it was in the New York Times. It was 36 questions to ask and to fall in love. And that it does not even have to be in a romantic relationship. Just asking someone, do you have a hunch about how you are going to die? That question just hit me hard, because that is, wow. That can touch on your deep fears and just sharing that stuff with someone, and that can go real deep. And I recommend reading that article and going through those questions. But other than that, I do not know, I just feel it out. And anytime I see someone going through a feeling, I am always, Hmm, let us explore that. I am not a therapist or anything, but I try to explore those conversations that people are, Oh, yeah, but it does not matter. Do not worry about it. It is, no, wait, but it does, let us go there.

Sasza
And those questions escalate. So, it also gives you the whole spectrum for newer connections versus people who you already have had a certain amount of confidence established with. So as we wrap up, I have just a couple rapid fire questions that I am going to ask you. Okay. Pizza or pasta.

Nati
Ooooh, that is really hard.

Sasza
Rapid fire.

Nati
Pasta.

Sasza
Sunrise yoga, or dancing until sunrise?

Nati
Ooh. Dancing until sunrise.

Sasza
Drink of choice?

Nati
Oh, I would have to say beer.

Sasza
Hugs or kisses?

Nati
Hugs.

Sasza
Sex or intimacy?

Nati
Intimacy.

Sasza
Nature or nurture?

Nati
Nurture.

Sasza
One of the best years of your life?

Nati
I think it was 2016.

Sasza
Who is one of your heroes?

Nati
I think my heroes are, one of them is Yoga Girl. Just, because of her vulnerability and how she speaks from the heart.

Sasza
What kind of dog would you be?

Nati
I do not think I would be a dog. I would be something else. Something a little bit weirder.

Sasza
Something you are excited for in the next year?

Nati
I am launching my podcast very soon, so I am very excited about that.

Sasza
Nice.

Nati
Yes.

Sasza
Okay. So now, the first word that comes to mind. So, I will give you a cue word, and you give me the first one that comes to mind. Culture.

Nati
Everywhere.

Sasza
Sex.

Nati
Intimacy.

Sasza
Love.

Nati
Everywhere.

Sasza
You.

Nati
Happy.

Sasza
Us.

Nati
Conversations.

Sasza
Be.

Nati
Present.

Sasza
Man.

Nati
Woman.

Sasza
Be a man.

Nati
Hmm. Be a man. Cry it out.

Sasza
Change.

Nati
Starts with you.

Sasza
Hope.

Nati
Do not lose it.

Sasza
BBXX.

Nati
The best.

Sasza
Amazing. Thank you. It was so great having you.

Nati
Thank you so much.

Sasza
Talk to you soon.

Nati
Thanks for having me.

About the Expert

Nati Valderrama

Nati Valderrama

Nati Valderrama is a Health & Wellness Coach helping people overcome their struggles and reach their goals. Sometimes we get so stuck in our story that we forget we are the authors of it. We get to make new decisions everyday, decisions that will forge and create a future for ourselves. She believes in the power of positive thinking, social connection and a healthy lifestyle.

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